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#41 AtrumLevis

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 10:22 PM

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Ike is a good representative for new FE though because he had a main role in two of the more recent FEs. None of the other lords had that privilege, so this has to say something.

Um yeah. Marth. The more recent being Eirika and Ephraim. Hector, Lyndis, and Eliwood were the main lords in the first FE game in the States, Blazing Sword. Then Krom is coming soon, so there will be a chance for him to join. The only reason why Ike was added was because his games had more influence and were... well more intense with the Goddess Ashera and all.

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I personally think it'll either be just Marth and Ike again or Marth, Ike, and Krom.

I think Roy should be added... I mean he basically was just like Marth in his story... Defeated a dark dragon.

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#42 Anacybele

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:26 PM

I meant besides Marth. And neither Hector, Lyn, or Eliwood got a main role in a game besides FE7. Ike had a main role in two games.

Also, that's exactly why I think Roy SHOULDN'T return. He's too much like Marth. Ike is completely different and adds originality.

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#43 Noah

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 11:25 PM

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#44 Muigi

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 01:36 AM

Ike may be completely different based on movesets, which is something I highly respect, however character entries aren't judged based on their attacks. If that were the case, Jigglypuff would've been gone a long time ago.

They're based on their relevancy. Marth stays on because he reps Fire Emblem as a whole. Ike got into Brawl because he was the new face of the series at that time. Odds are, that new blue-haired dude will probably replace Ike due to being the 'newer' face thanks to the 3DS game. Roy won't come back either for the same reason.

It's basically the same reason as to why Lucario won't come back: Lucario repped the Diamond/Pearl Pokemon gen when Brawl was released, and currently Zoroark and Victini are in a close race for being the 5th gen rep of the current generation.

#45 Anacybele

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:34 AM

Relevancy is only one factor. There are others besides that. Also, I think Marth only represents old school Fire Emblem as a whole. The only "new" games he has are remakes. Ike, on the other hand, is a great rep for newer Fire Emblem because he's the only recent lord who has a main role in more than one game, as I've stated. That's definitely relevancy right there.

But I do agree that Roy probably won't be coming back.

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#46 AtrumLevis

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 12:45 PM

Your Ike fandom just annoys me. I'm thinking Fire Emblem 13 will be out sometime soon and SSB4 will be out sometime right after, because it took about two or more years for SSBB to come out. So if FE13 comes out... let's say, next year in November, and SSB4 news hits September 2012, and comes out March 2015, then who's more relevant to the FE series then? Who's going to be fresh?

Ike isn't immortal.

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#47 SpAtk154

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 01:28 PM

ffffuuuuuuu A Smash Bros. topic. Y U NO LEAVE ME IN PEACE SMASH BROS?


View PostAtrumLevis, on 03 November 2011 - 12:45 PM, said:

Ike isn't immortal.

Well... since this appears to be the current topic, guess I'll give my two cents on it.

In Smash Bros., the closest to "immortal" you can get is if you are one of the major Nintendo mascots, the main face (rep) of your franchise, extremely popular/recognizable, or one of the original 12.

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, DK, Wario, Link, Zelda, Samus, Kirby, arguably Meta Knight, Kind Dedede, Fox, Captain Falcon, Pikachu, arguably Jigglypuff, possibly Marth, and arguably Ness. This bunch of characters are pretty much GUARANTEED cut-proof due to their iconic status in Nintendo, where MK's notorious brokenness and connections with Sakurai will likely keep him around; Jigglypuff being part of the original 12 (and her similarities to Kirby are probably the ONLY reason she's been coming back); Marth being the first(?) FE lord of the franchise, and forming a positive and growing fanbase since Melee; and Ness due to being one of the original 12, and being one of the few competent EarthBound/MOTHER reps.

Everyone else is pretty much fodder brought about either because of nostalgia (Trainer, Ice Climbers, Diddy, Pit to a lesser extent now, Mr. Game & Watch, Falco to a lesser extent), being the most [or one of the most] current faces in their respective franchise (Ganondorf, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, Wolf, Olimar, Lucario, Ike, Lucas), having "special connections" to get into the game (Snake, Sonic's huge popularity), or God only knows why (R.O.B.).
Quite possibly the worst position you could be of all of these, is being just a "modern rep" to your franchise. And the only 2 that really come to mind are Ike and Lucario. Roy was replaced by Ike because Ike was the most recent lord; and Mewtwo was replaced by Lucario because Sakurai's an idiot like that sometimes. But now times have changed; where Ike was more of a well-known face, one of these days he'll be cut out and replaced with another modern lord, just as Roy was cut out before him. The same goes for Lucario; next to R.O.B., he's probably one of the most bitched about characters in the game. It doesn't help his cause much. The ONLY reason he was added was to promote Diamond and Pearl. Come Black and White, he's gone. I'm putting money on Zoroark, as by the time SSB4 even starts getting into some sort of production, the Victini movies (and Victini) will be long gone; Keldeo and Meloetta will likely have been revealed by that time, and while Meloetta could pull off being an interesting fighter, I don't see either of those two being very productive SSB material as they're not faces of the 5th Gen, just "secret" events. If anything, since we all know Ruby/Sapphire remakes are on the way, Deoxys will have more of a chance as being playable than Victini by that point; Deoxys would be perfect to promote the remakes, and Zoroark the BW games (if the 3rd installment hasn't already been leaked/revealed by then). Really wish I could fit Mewtwo somewhere in that equation, but that's another discussion all in itself.


tl;dr I have little hope in Ike returning by the time the next FE title hits shelves. It doesn't matter how cool or original a character you are, if you're not some major mascot for Nintendo, your ass is grass. And with the way Smash Bros. has been turning into, modern reps will dominate the fighting scene, leaving would-be modern faces in the dust. It's sad and sick how the promotion of games is what determines the next fighters, but I guess that's life for us.


...Also,


View PostSupervisor, on 30 September 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

The SSE, while dull and annoying, with a nonsense plot, and a focus on Kirby-esque mechanics, wasn't my main gripe with the game. Instead, I dislike how strange the nostalgia in the game is handled. Metroid pulls just about nothing from Prime 2, and absolutely nothing from Prime 3. Samus uses her Super Metroid design. And yet, Donkey Kong apparently only existed since Jungle Beat and Barrel Blast.

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#48 AtrumLevis

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 01:44 PM

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tl;dr I have little hope in Ike returning by the time the next FE title hits shelves. It doesn't matter how cool or original a character you are, if you're not some major mascot for Nintendo, your ass is grass. And with the way Smash Bros. has been turning into, modern reps will dominate the fighting scene, leaving would-be modern faces in the dust. It's sad and sick how the promotion of games is what determines the next fighters, but I guess that's life for us.

That was the point I was making right there is Ike isn't gonna last. Doesn't matter if he defeated a Goddess, using the other half of her power (Yune). There's been many times other characters did similar, especially Ness who fought basically a pure evil being named Gigyas who is capable of immense strength.

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#49 Muigi

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:48 PM

View PostFrom 03 November 2011 - 03:34 AM:

Also, I think Marth only represents old school Fire Emblem as a whole.  The only "new" games he has are remakes.

I can agree with this statement.

View PostFrom 03 November 2011 - 03:34 AM:

Ike, on the other hand, is a great rep for newer Fire Emblem because he's the only recent lord who has a main role in more than one game, as I've stated.  That's definitely relevancy right there.

However, I can't stick with this logic for Ike staying. If the current new face of Fire Emblem is part of a remake, regardless of who it is, odds are they will be thrown in for most recent relevancy. These days, most people don't know anything about Ike outside of Brawl, much less the only two games he's been in. Not saying this due to distaste of Ike (which I don't have), but this is just fact.

I'm with SpAtk up there, relevancy is the BIGGEST factor for a Smash Bros entry.

#50 Anacybele

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 03:43 AM

View PostAtrumLevis, on 03 November 2011 - 12:45 PM, said:

Your Ike fandom just annoys me. I'm thinking Fire Emblem 13 will be out sometime soon and SSB4 will be out sometime right after, because it took about two or more years for SSBB to come out. So if FE13 comes out... let's say, next year in November, and SSB4 news hits September 2012, and comes out March 2015, then who's more relevant to the FE series then? Who's going to be fresh?

Ike isn't immortal.

Alright, now you're pissing me off. I was NEVER saying ANY of what I said simply because I like Ike. I was basing my information on what I've read, seen, and experienced, not on how good a character I think he is.

Also, Marth isn't a major Nintendo mascot. In fact, Nintendo didn't even make him. Intelligent Systems did. Yet he's still staying. Even so, I can see both him and Ike as Intelligent Systems mascots, rather than Nintendo. And, IS is a company that only releases their games on Nintendo consoles. You do the math.

Lastly, how does Ike having two games not matter? This clearly means that he is more relevant to FE than all of the other lords save for Marth.

Also, SPAtk, you're right, Lucario and Roy were only in to promote the games they appeared in. Ike was added in to replace Roy because Roy no longer had a reason for being in Smash Bros. His game was already out, and from what I know, it didn't do too well. Ike, on the other hand, already had both of his games released when Brawl came out, so he was added because he was more important to FE, as he had a larger role overall in the series. Not so his games would be promoted. It wouldn't make sense, because as I said, they had already come out.

RD had only been out for a short time, but if Ike's addition was meant to promote that game, don't you think they'd have used his RD model instead of the PoR one?

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#51 SpAtk154

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 07:21 AM

View PostAnacybele, on 05 November 2011 - 03:43 AM, said:

RD had only been out for a short time, but if Ike's addition was meant to promote that game, don't you think they'd have used his RD model instead of the PoR one?

Samus was STILL using her classic model, even though the Metroid Prime games were well into its little series by the time Brawl came out. Why didn't they use her Metroid Prime look? Why didn't Super Mario Galaxy get any promotion, even though THAT had been around for a bit of time, too?

Don't be fooled. The trophies... the trophies are a dead giveaway on how Ike's in just because he's a modern face. There are numerous trophies from recent DK titles, recent Zelda titles (Wind Waker, Twilight Princess), the recent Metroid Prime titles, recent Star Fox titles, and, oh look~ recent Fire Emblem titles. And what do all these have in common? They're all recent.

Little to no classic/nostalgic references. Where the HELL did Ocarina of Time go from Zelda? Completely replaced by the MODERN games. And why? Because Smash Bros. has turned into a giant gaming catalog for all things recent and available. Why promote Ocarina of Time, a game hardly available, when you could show Twilight Princess instead, and get people to buy it? Why scrap all those EarthBound (MOTHER 2) trophies from Melee, when you could have more trophies from MOTHER 3? Why not have the Wario universe span to the times of Captain Maple Syrup? Why bother to show references from even Roy's or Eliwood's titles, when you could show Ike's? It's not because Ike is important in Nintendo's eyes; he doesn't hold some special place in their heart like Mario or DK. Ike is/was being used as a MARKETING TOOL. And when his time is done, he'll be thrown away, JUST like Roy who promoted his game, JUST like Pichu who was promoting the then-recent 2nd Generation of Pokemon, JUST like the old styles of the Zelda characters who promoted Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask in that era.
The only way... and the ONLY way he'll be returning, is if he appears in more future Fire Emblem titles, or becomes so massively hugely popular like Sonic that he has a shot at sticking around for all future Smash titles. If he's not, he's royally screwed. Maybe not so much in the game after Brawl, since he's still a rather recent FE lord contender, but after SSB4... it looks grim for him.

When I said "it's sad and sick how the promotion of games is what determines the next fighters," I was being serious. Sakurai doesn't give a damn about our characters. He's being paid to promote to us what's HOT right NOW, and Smash Bros. makes the perfect billboard.
And don't let faces like the Ice Climbers or Pit fool you; they're from their own series of games, and are the only ones available to rep them. There could be some nostalgic factor in there, but seeing how Pit was added, and not long after Brawl, he's getting another game? From Sakurai no less? I'm calling clever promotional foreshadowing on that... not nostalgia. (This bit's more of my own crackpot theory, though. That's giving Sakurai a bit too much credit. :D )


tl;dr Ike's not so hugely important to Nintendo that he wouldn't be replaced. He's just a marketing tool in Brawl, just like the rest of the roster; updated to appeal to the kids of today with their Twilight Princesses and Diamond/Pearls and Primes and Jungle Beats. And these games have new entries into their series' (Skyward Sword/Zelda WiiU, Black/White, Other M, DKC Returns), those reps will be replaced and forgotten by the companies who only care about getting us to buy, buy, buy today, today, today.


FYI, I have no beef with Ike. Do I love me his forward Smash, and how easy it is to KO people with that broke sword. His playstyle is fun, and that's enough to warrant an OK in my book. But let's be realistic... Once he has a successor, there's little hope for him left, especially if Sakurai's keeping the FE reps to a minimal 2, which is ridiculous, IMO.

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#52 Anacybele

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 05:50 PM

It doesn't matter what you say. I don't agree and I'm not giving up on the possibility of Ike returning unless it's confirmed that he won't be. End of story.

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#53 Muigi

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:16 AM

View PostAnacybele, on 05 November 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:

It doesn't matter what you say. I don't agree and I'm not giving up on the possibility of Ike returning unless it's confirmed that he won't be. End of story.

Then I'm gonna have to be brutally honest: Don't get your hopes up too high.

I respect your opinion, but for Pete sake, don't block out what's been proven as fact at this point. You can't ignore the possibility of Ike being replaced by a newer face in the series. I mean for crying out loud, I was a big fan of Doctor Mario in Melee (even know I didn't use him), but I knew damn well he had no shot of making a return in Brawl.

View PostSpAtk154, on 05 November 2011 - 07:21 AM, said:

Once he has a successor, there's little hope for him left, especially if Sakurai's keeping the FE reps to a minimal 2, which is ridiculous, IMO.

I don't see how.

Classic (Marth) / Modern (Recent FE Main)

Makes perfect sense to me. Marth represents the classic Fire Emblem series, while the new face represents Fire Emblem in its current state. FE has too many characters to choose from and not many folks (as in, not fans of the series) even know or give a hoot about the majority. It's best to stick with two (Classic / Modern) to draw in the crowd of both fans and folks new to it.

#54 Anacybele

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:09 AM

Hey, I never said I thought Ike would return for sure. Of course I'm aware that there's a chance he won't be in Smash Bros. 4. I just think that based on the facts and evidence, Ike has a pretty good chance of being in. That's that.

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#55 Zero

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 12:11 AM

If he's in, he's in, yay, good job, I'll just mod Roy in.
If Korn is in, then you can just mod Ike in.
Ideally, you'd have both. Realistically, don't get your hopes up.
That's about it.

I'm more interested in whether or not Sonic will be returning. Doubtful.

#56 Muigi

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:16 AM

View PostSupervisor, on 12 November 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

I'm more interested in whether or not Sonic will be returning. Doubtful.
Don't see why not, unless they don't plan on throwing in 3rd parties again.

I'm still expecting a Prime Hunters character to be playable since Ridley can't due to his size. At least Bowser can get away with it. T_T

#57 Anacybele

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:20 AM

It's Krom lol. Really, I'd like to see both Krom and Ike alongside Marth. Marth for old school FE, Ike for newer FE, and Krom for the newest lord.

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#58 LordXenon

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 04:33 PM

It personally doesn't matter to me as long as Marth stays in the game. Marth is my favorite FE Lord thus far added, too. Ike is cool, but who doesn't like the graceful swordsman? :x
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#59 Anacybele

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:03 PM

Marth is cool, yeah, but I'm not much into girly men. I liked Marth better in Shadow Dragon where he was actually kinda manly. But of all FE characters, Ike is definitely the manliest, and that's one thing I like about him. He's a muscley guy who wields a giant sword, for goodness sake. Also, nobody can say that being so damned strong you can wield a two-handed sword with one hand isn't awesome. I love Ike's brute strength and power and I think he's hot. <3

This is just Brawl Ike I'm talking about here though. In his games, I also loved his personality and a whole bunch other things about him.

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#60 Zero

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:44 PM

Two-handed swords are not impossible to use with one hand. See Link in SCII. Heck, try it yourself. It's unwieldy, but not impossible.

And by god, I just had the best idea ever.

Green Hill Zone -> Generations Green Hill (With all Classic songs from Generations)
Halberd -> Egg Carrier (With all Modern songs from Generations)

This is going to rock my metaphorical socks.




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